Surviving a Murder Scene: The Story That Will Haunt You | Sexually Assaulted

Martin Rowinski (00:00.77)
Welcome to another episode of Leadership Talks. I’m your host, Martin Rowinski CEO of Boardsi And today we have a special guest, Ashley Michelle, author of the inspiring book, Finding Strength Through Tragedy. Ashley is a survivor of a traumatic crime that occurred in 2016 and since dedicated her life to sharing her story and her healing journey.

Her mission is to inspire others to overcome their own challenges and find strength in the face of adversity. Ashley, thanks for joining us.

Ashley (00:36.516)
Thank you so much for having me on your platform. really appreciate it.

Martin Rowinski (00:42.014)
Absolutely. know, I believe and typically, you know, you may know, but I bring a lot of CEOs and founders and people that sold their companies. But one theme that comes out of it always is resilience. And I think going through trauma, definitely, you know, and then coming out on top like you did, that’s that’s a that’s a resilience builder.

Ashley (01:05.357)
absolutely.

Martin Rowinski (01:07.008)
So yeah, love to jump into your book and talk about it. I won’t give too much of it away. I’ll let you do that part. But your book, Finding Strength Through Tragedy, has obviously touched many lives. Can you share with us what motivated you to write this book and how the process of writing it contributed to your healing journey?

Ashley (01:27.819)
Yeah, it was actually during COVID that I wrote it. Quite a bit of downtime. But yes, I actually came up with the title before I came up with anything else. I knew that strength was the main focus. So I will dive right into my story as to what led me to write this book. So it actually starts

Martin Rowinski (01:30.87)
You

Martin Rowinski (01:34.186)
Yeah, I was baking sourdough and you were writing a book

Martin Rowinski (01:52.62)
Perfect.

Ashley (01:55.223)
When I went into counseling, I realized that it just didn’t start at that specific trauma. It started all the way back at childhood because trauma, has many, many layers to it. And in order to uncover every rock, every stone, you have to go back to where your trauma has started in order to properly heal. So my trauma started that as a child and there was a lot of neglect.

a lot of verbal abuse in my childhood so I went through all that and I discussed all of that with my therapist and then I was bullied all throughout school so that took an effect on my self -esteem, self -confidence, my self -worth. My parents lived a very toxic relationship. When I first got into college I was in my first romantic relationship ever.

I ended up being in a domestic abusive relationship where I was slammed into doors, hit, had a knife pointed at me one time by this individual. And that was my first experience being in a relationship. And it ended with him cheating on me. And that’s how that relationship ended. And I had final exams to write at that point in time. So somehow some miracle happened and I ended up passing all of them.

Then fast forward to 2016, a week before I was a witness in a homicide, I was actually running on a path and broad daylight in a park and I was assaulted in that park. Then a couple weeks later, I found myself in a middle of a murder scene where I was strangled, sexually assaulted, had a knife pointed to my back.

So William Joles called me to an apartment at five in the morning, which I didn’t think was odd. Our schedules were all over the place. I was working three jobs at the time. So scheduling was just hectic as it was. And then I went over there probably just shortly after six. I waited out there for like an hour and 45 minutes.

Ashley (04:13.325)
before he actually came downstairs. Then he took me up to the 16th floor where I and another individual but the other individual ended up leaving before going in the apartment. So I went up to the 16th floor. He slammed the door behind me and said you weren’t going anywhere. Walked all the locks behind me.

Ashley (04:38.049)
There’s blood splatter absolutely everywhere in the apartment. Your feet could stick to the ground. That’s how awful it was. Things thrown all over the apartment. And then he, when I said, where’s Nathan? He said to me, he said,

I will show you kind of thing and he took me to the body that he showed me where Nathan was and said that this was going to be me next. He said he was already going away for one account murder. Why not make it two? He kept asking me to go to the balcony, but I wouldn’t go to the balcony because I knew and then I ran down. Sorry, I think it was the 18th floor. I believe not the 16th floor. I ran down 18 flights of stairs. That’s how I got out.

but I was in the apartment for almost two hours.

where I was, he said that if I didn’t clean up the murder scene that he would kill me essentially. And so he threw me sponges, made me start to clean up, strangled me when I didn’t, locked all the doors behind me. I wasn’t allowed to go anywhere. Then finally at one point he went into the bathroom. So I then ran down 18 flights of stairs.

Because one of the elevators weren’t working at the time and I went to a Friday store I had blood all over the back of my shirt Just from standing at the door That’s how much blood there was everywhere. I Later found out in trial that he took a naked selfie of himself covered in blood As it was like a trophy he was almost proud of it

Ashley (06:31.12)
I think trial was almost just as bad as being in the murder scene. It was horrific seeing him. I actually saw him this past March. I’ll go into detail about that as well. So this is the thing with this type of trauma and being a witness to a homicide is it’s what people don’t understand is even after the court process, it’s never truly over.

and I get packages now from the parole board. get his testing scores. I get letters of upcoming hearings, which I just had an upcoming hearing in March because he wanted to go for temporary escorted access, which he was denied, thankfully. But the criminal justice system is a failure here in Canada. By 2020,

he can apply for a day parole by 2030 he can apply for full eligibility so really and truly it’s not a lifelong sentence I ended up finding out at trial that he beat the deceased to death with his bare hands watched him die on the floor for two to three hours and did nothing but at the trial wanted to play manslaughter

which is disgusting. know manslaughter is like a car accident if you accidentally hurt somebody, but this was an accidental, this was intentional. And a lot of people ask me, why did he do this? Well, really and truly, is there any reason that you go and kill somebody and harm somebody the way that you did in such a brutal manner? Him and Nathan were best friends. They had been friends for 10 years. They were practically like brothers.

Nathan’s family is a warm welcoming beautiful family and they invited Will on multiple occasions to come to the house and have family dinners. They included him in absolutely everything. They made him almost a part of the family pretty much and that’s what they did to their son. I am in touch with Nathan’s family. Actually Mona

Ashley (08:40.746)
She works for a company and she helped put together my website for me. So she’s been a terrific inspiration in the whole healing journey. We’ve kind of come together and healed together. And it’s been an ongoing journey. We’re always there to support each other, which is really nice. We have a lot of support of encouragement, a lot of people that rally around us when it’s time for those hearings and stuff.

but the police station is 110 % the reason behind everything that I do as well. So I was fortunate to get police and detectives that were so inspirational and so supportive. A lot of people don’t get really good police or really good detectives, but I had the best of the best. And so when I first got to the police station, they didn’t ask me what happened.

They said, can you please make us a promise that you won’t turn to the streets for drugs, sex, prostitution, etc. And because they told me that, that stuck in my mind. So now anytime that I see an addict or somebody on the street, I think what horrific trauma did they go through to get to that? And so I wrote this book in hopes and I do these podcasts, I do, you know, Tik Toks and stuff to hopefully help.

some individuals from turning into that negative behavior. But it’s really hard to because we don’t have here in Canada, we don’t have a lot of mental health resources, we don’t have enough counseling resources like the police victim services here is open until four. But then what happens after that? We all know crime doesn’t stop at four p The crime continues on on Saturday and Sunday and a lot of these

People are young individuals that are survivors and witnesses of crime and they can’t wait until Monday to get a counselor. Like they’re hanging on for dear life. And you you lose your self -esteem, you lose your self -worth, you lose your self -confidence going through this. I didn’t physically die that day, but every part of me did die that day. I had to rebuild myself from scratch. I…

Martin Rowinski (10:49.772)
Yeah.

Ashley (11:07.84)
became anti -social, I didn’t want to leave my house, I became so depressed that, and I ended up leaving my house to go to work and then I just come home and sleep because I didn’t want to feel anything. Fast forward October 2016, I ended up, you know, feeling so, survivor’s guilt is something that’s very common with this. And I basically felt like I didn’t deserve to live.

I didn’t feel like I had a purpose. thought, well, why is the deceased gone? But I’m here. I struggled with that question. So then when it ended up happening is I ended up, was Thanksgiving. My emotions were just so overwhelming and so powerful. I ended up mixing some pills with tequila and that was that. I was out like light for a day and a bit and.

My friends ended up finding out and I woke up. didn’t even know what day it was. Luckily I woke up. But I just, I felt so much pain and I felt so much guilt for making it through and the deceased not making it through. But now I’ve turned it around where I have this purpose where I’m living through the deceased. Like the deceased was very much

like me, if roles were reversed, he’d be doing the same thing. He’d be having this conversation with you. He would be writing a book. He was the kind of person that gave the shirt off his back for anybody. Like here, his parents have done a beautiful garden that actually goes and feeds the homeless. So there’s a whole bunch of vegetables, a whole bunch of things that will go towards the homeless so they have food, which is a beautiful thing.

The community has really come together and we are really trying to just pay it forward and we’re trying to live out Nathan’s legacy and what he would want to do and he would want to help other people, especially the less fortunate. So we’re really trying to put his light in a positive way. We don’t just want him to be remembered as somebody who is deceased. We want him to be remembered for the person that he was and everything that he gave.

Martin Rowinski (13:29.9)
That’s awesome. Obviously, you’re very open about the struggles with PTSD and depression, anxiety. it’s sure it’s been rough. Happy to see you on top now. But to summarize it, what strategies or practices have you found most effective in managing these challenges?

Ashley (13:37.99)
yeah.

Ashley (13:53.756)
Well, it was crazy. I went to the doctors for the PTSD test and I always thought that PTSD was something that was just for soldiers, right? I never thought that like, like I just didn’t fight a war. Like why do I have this? So when I found out that I had it, I was in counseling and then I was also seeing my nurse practitioner once a week. So I was talking out my feelings and then I was

working my way up slowly but surely and I eventually went back to the gym and that’s where I healed a lot of my mental, emotional pain went towards working out and went towards the gym. And then sitting, journaling sometimes I would do and that really seemed to help. You know, trying to do little things that like, it was about doing little things at a time.

So for me, for instance, it was, okay, I’m gonna get up at this time, I’m gonna go and I’m gonna shower. It was taking minute by minute. And then it worked up to hour by hour, and then it worked up to day by day. But it was very tough. It was very hard. Because you’re rebuilding a new version of yourself, right? And that takes a lot of hard work and dedication.

I had to be honest and open to my nurse practitioner if I wanted to get better. I had to be open and honest to my counselor if I wanted to get better. And I had to work out and I had to just put my headphones in and just drown out everything else as hard as that would be. And that’s exactly what I did. That’s what got me through things. Writing thoughts, ideas down. Music also helped me. Having a support network.

around me was in the police, know, they were so, they like said anytime, you know, you need us, here’s our contact information, reach out to us via email, whatever, call us if you need to. So it just helped having such a supportive network that I knew really cared about me. To the not even ask what happened first, to like wanting me to make this promise to them.

Ashley (16:15.389)
That just showed that you know what people care about you. This is what you have to do. You have to live for the deceased. And also what else was very helpful is knowing that I had to I was the witness in this homicide. So I knew that there was court relying on me. There was people relying on me to seek out some kind of justice. And I knew that I had a responsibility to do it and I had to do it well.

It was awful. It was painful. I mean you go through all the videos of your police statements you Hear your 911 call, which I think was the most painful thing to be honest with you and You relive the past when you’re you know going through the trial like I did probably a month’s worth of prep work before going into the trial so that was going through all those videos and everything like that it was

Martin Rowinski (17:02.86)
Yep.

Ashley (17:13.212)
It was a lot, it was very overwhelming, but that’s where self -care comes in. And if you can’t take care of yourself, then you can’t begin to help other people, including people who are relying on you to serve your statements, etc. So this is where I needed to make sure I was going to the gym, make sure I was talking to my friends, make sure that I was just taking time out for myself, making my favorite meals, sitting watching my favorite shows, listening to my favorite music.

journaling, going to the gym, I knew that I had to take care of myself because at the end of the day, nobody else is going to take care of you but you. And I knew that I had to be a little bit selfish and kind of put myself first and realize, okay, you know what? You need to go to bed at this time. You need to like just have a lot of routine and structure and consistency. So my anxiety wasn’t going through the roof.

Martin Rowinski (18:12.61)
And obviously you just touched on something that I was going to ask. I know you aim to help others find strength in their own tough times. What advice would you give to someone who is currently facing a difficult situation and feels like giving up? that situation can be 100 % different. And you went through something really, really tough. And you may listen to somebody’s situation and think to yourself.

That’s nothing compared to what I got through. what do you normally, what’s your normal advice?

Ashley (18:46.232)
My normal advice actually is I actually had a survivor of a homicide reach out to me. He was actually in the States and his mom reached out to me. So I just sent her, I said, we need to get him in counseling. We need to figure out what support groups are in your area. So I did research and I sent all the support groups, everything like that. So he would have the proper tools in place and hopefully get the help that he needed.

before going down a negative path. Another thing that I have actually started to do is it’s a new project that I started with my friend David Keck. He has done Surviving Abuse podcast. He was actually a witness of a haunt, well, he was, unfortunately, he was beaten up pretty bad and almost left for death.

So him and I have decided to kind of team up and we’ve done this project where it’s called Healing After Tr and really focuses on the healing after you’ve been through something so horrific because sometimes people just want to talk about the trauma but we don’t want to talk about like what’s our healing story? How are we going to heal? How are we going to get through this? So there’s questions that actually come in and one of those questions was on Survivor’s Guilt.

And that’s something that I focus on really big because there are millions, I wish that this wasn’t a worldwide epidemic, but it is. There are survivors and witnesses of homicide every day, countrywide, nationwide. So the advice that I give to them is to be selfish and really strive to take care of yourself. What’s going to get you through the day? Is it going to be that coffee with a friend?

Is it going to be art therapy? Is it going to be journaling? Is it going to be writing a book? Is it going to be writing a blog? Just really trying to dive in and focus on what people’s interests are so that they can be motivated and have something to look forward to in their day and they’re not just stuck in this huge, you know, trauma spiral where they can’t get out of it. Like having that one thing to look forward to every day is what’s going to keep somebody going.

Ashley (21:06.738)
I believe because when you’re just sleep all the time and when you don’t have anything, it just leads you into a spiral of absolute depression and anxiety and PTSD and you’re looking to turn that stuff around. know, even if it’s you have a shower and you go downstairs and do laundry, you’re doing something right? And it’s going to be step by step.

It’s going to be a process. It’s not going to be an overnight healing journey. I mean, I’m still healing to this very exact day. I mean, and this is the thing that people fail to understand is the past isn’t the past. Like this is still happening now. This is still happening currently, but I’m not going to live in it and dread and cry and be the shallow human being about it.

I know that I have a purpose. have step kids that rely on me. I have a job that relies on me. I have friends that rely on me. I have people that are trying to find their strength after trauma relying on me. So I know that I have found my purpose, like as awful as it is, and I don’t wish this on anybody, but in a sixth sense, this situation that’s happened to me has been, you know,

me finding inspiration again and me rebuilding myself and you know what, me rebuilding myself was for the absolute very best and now I’m able to be a teaching tool and be a teaching lesson to other people who are going through similar challenges now, you know, a lot of people say when you’re blogging, well do statistics, do facts but a lot of people I can say, you know what, I related to that emotion, I cried in public

I get your anxiety. I get that you check over your shoulder every single minute. I get that you’re in this survival mode. Like I really think that relating to people through numbers and stuff, statistics are great. But sitting there and being like, know what, I felt that, I understood that. You know what, I went through that exact thing. I had that same thought. That’s the level that you want to connect with people on.

Ashley (23:29.898)
You want to be able to be that sounding board. And sometimes, you know what all people need is just somebody to listen to. And I’ve learned that huge. You know, I’ve even helped some drug addicts and stuff. My friend, her daughter struggled. And you know what, I helped her along. I just sometimes all you have to do is listen and not throw judgment at people. Everybody is going to heal in their own way. It’s going to be different for everybody.

Martin Rowinski (23:30.281)
empathy.

Yeah.

Ashley (23:58.653)
And it takes time, it takes self growth, it takes a lot of hard work and dedication. But people have to know that you’re worth it. And I think this is important where self affirmations come into play. Like having something on your mirror every day or when you go to bed, you know, you are enough, you are a warrior, you are courageous, you are a survivor. Like we need to start lifting people up because so many people call me the victim and I’m like, but I’m not a victim.

I truly believe that I was never a victim. I’m a survivor. I’m strong. I’m brave. I’m courageous because I went through that. It’s taking that negative content and turning it into something positive and uplifting and knowing that you went through the worst of the worst, but you’re still standing tall today and giving yourself that credit and being proud of yourself. And it’s okay to be proud of yourself by all means. It’s okay to, you know, understand that

Martin Rowinski (24:33.825)
Yeah.

Ashley (24:58.075)
You are a warrior. And it’s okay to use positive language to rebuild your self -esteem and your self -worth. That’s what it’s about.

Martin Rowinski (25:08.77)
So looking at that, personal trauma, everything you’ve gone through, you’ve built a lot of resilience. Sounds like empathy is a huge part of you. Not to transition away from the trauma, but do you see any relevance or do you even ever think about it right now? Your personal experience and now looking at your professional, what you do for work.

Do you utilize any of those tools you’ve discovered in your leadership or in your professional life? Do you find or did you never even think about that? What do you think?

Ashley (25:50.12)
I think that I have used every single tool. I think a lot of it, like you said, comes from the empathy, the compassionate point of view, right? I work with kids in my job, so I have to be patient with them, right? I have to be a leader to them. They’re relying on me. Just like…

all these survivors and witnesses and people that are going through trauma are relying on me. So it’s taking almost the same characteristics and using them in my workplace, using them in my professional life, using them as a stepparent. I try to advocate the best I can for people and I know that trauma is never completely over and completely gone. Like I said, I’m still going through it.

But it’s how do you want to live your day to day? And I want to live my day to day by being the best version of myself that I can be. And that’s what I want for kids. I want them to be able to be confident and have a self -esteem and self -worth, right? So it’s just, it’s really taking everything that I’ve learned and all my experiences, like so many young kids now suffer from anxiety, right?

and it’s getting more more common. So using my experiences, my personal, my professional experiences to just help as many people as I can. And I think those are my tools is my characteristic traits. know, just being that listening ear, just trying to understand what it is somebody is going through and, you know, help them find their needs, their interests and how they want to start to rebuild their lives.

You know, talking to people in a patient manner, know, slow and steady. You know, we’re not going to rush through our healing journey because then you’re not fully healed. It’s about being slow and steady and taking it, you know, day at a time or minute by minute or hour by hour. However, you know, it’s about learning about yourself again and reclaiming your life and understanding, you know, you are worth something.

Ashley (28:07.646)
And I think that’s where it’s huge to have a support network. It’s huge. know, group therapy is like a new thing too. A lot of people like being in a group and, you know, sharing their stories and sharing their struggles because it helps other people relate to each other. And I think that’s a big part of healing is being able to sit down and talk to people about, okay, this is how I healed, is, well, this is how I healed and gaining new understanding and gaining new knowledge I think is key.

You know, we can only learn off of each other and learn off of other experiences, right? And that’s how we grow to be a healthy individual.

Martin Rowinski (28:44.086)
Yep. Well, you’re raising the next generation of leaders, so build them strong. Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. Ashley, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your incredible journey. Your story is powerful reminder of strength and resilience that lies within all of us and yours obviously flourished.

Ashley (28:49.281)
I’m really trying.

Martin Rowinski (29:10.644)
It’s truly inspiring to hear how you’ve turned such a traumatic experience into a mission to help others. I think it’s awesome.

Ashley (29:19.357)
Well, I’ve even had like talks with my member of parliament to try to like change the justice system because really in Canada, there’s just not enough justice for crimes, you know, like Carla Homoka got released. I don’t know if you are familiar with that case, but her and Paul Bernardo murdered a lot of young girls and she ended up getting free because she made this like plea deal and just there’s not enough like

Martin Rowinski (29:36.991)
I am not.

Ashley (29:49.018)
Why should a criminal get to go out and live their lives? But yet, you know, somebody who wanted to live life and had a passion for life, their life gets taken so short. Like, I truly believe an eye for an eye. I believe if you take a life, then you should be in jail for life. There shouldn’t be another opportunity for you. You know what? I believe if you go away for a minor offense, like gang -related or drugs, maybe you can change.

Martin Rowinski (29:53.313)
Yeah.

Ashley (30:18.504)
But murders and child pedophiles, I just think they get worse. And they just learn how to manipulate the system. So I’m really working with my MP to try to change some laws and try to change some justice because there’s just not enough. And then this is why we have such huge mental health problems on our hands. And so many people turning to the streets for drugs and everything else, right? Going down a negative path versus a positive path.

So my goal is to just try to help and change and encourage as many people as I possibly can to, know, you are enough and you belong in this world. That’s my goal at end of the day. If I can impact as many lives as I can, that’s all that I’ve set out to do. It’s all about finding strength through tragedy is what it’s about.

Martin Rowinski (30:46.783)
Absolutely.

Martin Rowinski (31:08.418)
That’s awesome. Well, thank you, Ashley. And for our listeners, if you want to learn more about Ashley’s journey and her insights on healing and resilience, be sure to check out her book, Finding Strength Through Tragedy. It’s a must read for anyone looking for inspiration and hope. Thank you again for being with us and to our audience. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Leadership Talks. Say stay, I can’t even talk. Stay strong, stay inspired.

and we’ll see you next time. Thank you and until next time, take care, everyone.